Foot rigging asymmetry.

[Unabashed]

I'm not sure if this in in the right place.  I like to make lots of dance poses that involve slightly hyper-extended legs.  Unfortunately there seems to be an issue when I create a pose; the Right foot geometry "breaks" instantly on hyper-extension but the left foot holds it's shape until it's been extended much further.  I use Xbody 1.8.2, but the behavior is the same on the vanilla body.  It behaves similarly no matter what shoe is equipped, and happens barefoot too.  Any recommendations on how to make the right foot behave the same as the left?

 

[ddman2]

I noticed this too.

[HDiddy]

I strongly believe the right and left foot are not exact mirrors of each other.  You see this when making shoes when you put a mirrored ahoe on the other foot things need some slight adjustments.  This simply also needs me to believe their armatures have very slight differences between the two which will only show up for hyper extended movements like this.

[Unabashed]

Any guesses on how/if it can be fixed?

[onevision]

On 9/5/2022 at 3:16 PM, Unabashed said:

Any guesses on how/if it can be fixed?

check the relevant part in my mirroring tutorial:

https://www.klubexile.com/tutorials/article/141-pose-mirroring-in-pe-and-other-posing-tecniquespractices-a-small-guide/

[AdultRex]

First i dont really get what you mean 

if you extended the leg to the max length to animate it that will not be a good idea at all , you should move the leg with in it range limit same as arms  

otherwise your animation will be glitchy 

but if you mean like befor the max length of movement and there is different between the left and right feet to me i think there is not 

you can try to (( Hold Shift key )) and select both of the foots and rotate them together at once you will see that they move the same but do it as a new pose and do without any body mods  

but if you see a different then share the pose here so i can check it

https://mega.nz/file/godFTL5D#gBWHy_K5VujqWUlxML89CB-X_zOGAuPbs0ZYjexdIR4

[lp87]

I've actually noticed this too over the years, like one foot was somehow anchored better. At least it's only sometimes!

[x17]

I think this is because left and right foot/leg armature isnt completely identical and perfectly mirrored.

[Unabashed]

@x17  Any advice on how to fix it?  Is this something than can be corrected with a body mod or be altered in Blender?

[x17]

3 hours ago, Unabashed said:

@x17  Any advice on how to fix it?  Is this something than can be corrected with a body mod or be altered in Blender?

Something like this requires altered default armature, if the problem is related exactly to that (unsure and cannot confirm 100 %, but I assume it is). Now I think only hfg2's Genesis body possibly adressed this, but not sure in that either. I mean, he was the only one altering default armature so far, AFAIK.

However, using his own armature conversion process, this should be possible to fix. 

The problem is, though ... when you symmetrize something that was imperfect before, there is a possibility it could break some assets and there could be some clipping with some assets.

In some situations its best to make a new body, and make new assets for it, or any assets should have additional potential morphs that correct this and expand compatibility with bodies. There is one thing that is highly important there ... all vanilla assets have compatibility with default sliders and follow the default body morphs (I think this is Transform Constraint within the scripts), but additional assets dont. So figuring this out fully can further enhance the compatibility.

So, in conclusion ... its more about asset creation and its versatility, rather than body itself here. A very good asset would have capabilities (both automatic and manual) to fit onto multiple bodies. But all of that requires plenty of work and effort from a modder / creator.

[hfg2]

I always wanted to know why is doing this.

Did some quick testing and compared default body with my custom bodies, and it seems that my custom bodies are fixing the problem.

Now I have the feeling that in the stock bodies (stock armatures) the right foot is actually ok, it works as it should and the left foot is actually "jumpy", it tries to jump and changes its position/rotation but somehow it looks better because of that. There are 3 IKs in the leg, and one of the last two  (the smaller ones) creates issues I believe. An IK controlled joint can't possible keep its bending once the effector can't reach the target.

You should not confuse the "broken ankle" visual problem associated with the ankles that get overextended with this leg problem that makes different behaviour for left/right leg.

[Unabashed]

On 3/6/2023 at 12:46 AM, hfg2 said:

Did some quick testing and compared default body with my custom bodies, and it seems that my custom bodies are fixing the problem...

...Now I have the feeling that in the stock bodies (stock armatures) the right foot is actually ok, it works as it should and the left foot is actually "jumpy", it tries to jump and changes its position/rotation but somehow it looks better because of that...

...You should not confuse the "broken ankle" visual problem associated with the ankles that get overextended with this leg problem that makes different behaviour for left/right leg.

Thanks for looking into that.  Does that mean that this issue could be "fixed" (i.e. make the right foot behave the same as the left) through some hypothetical future update to @HDiddy's Xbody?  Or is that asking too much?