x17

From what Ive noticed, the numbers in scripts (for example rooms) are fitting exactly in 1:1. So 1 m in Blender = 1 m in game (if properly converted from DAZ, for example). One could use a grid in Blender to see, where 1 m is clearly visible in grid.

What I think it should be used ? I created a specific category just for that, or one could make it in any other category... but I think that something like meter or measurer is more practical as an asset thats linked to armature. For example, specifically for root bone and precisely measured from the bottom to top. This could be possible to be done as one single texture that displays both metric and imperial system, one on one side, other on the other side, while both are overlapped and visible. Or simply using second texture with imperial or metric system, even better. But again, should be linked to armature and precisely "calibrated" in Blender.

I have found usage of measuring only needed in something like customizer, this is why I created that customizer room with meter in it (metric and imperial overlayed). But technically, as long as one precisely calibrates the meter in Blender, they could also make something like morphable measurer. So, the meter itself should never be morphable as it would distort the proportions, but the mesh separate from it should be morphable. One could even create an exact height measuring device.

The more interesting thing to me is reflecting exact measures through slider values and then reflecting / displaying that in game in precise way.

It depends mainly on level of optimization of the rooms ... some rooms are absolutely unoptimized. Rooms are one asset in game that has highest potential and extent for optimization.

Too many textures should always be avoided, and textures should be reduced as much as possible to create fewer textures overall (reducing the number of draw calls).

In some rooms polycount could also be pointlessly high (adding onto burden, while instead that margin should be used for bodies and clothing).

In general, H5 or without (majority use H5) one should avoid using too complex and high resolution textures in bigger numbers, especially not for diffuse (base) textures. Most of the textures for objects in room can be optimized and fairly low res textures could be used for little (and sometimes barely noticeable) loss in visual quality. So, one needs to have in mind not to "overkill" the game with situations where they gain very little visual quality in return for losing a big performance (and stability) chunk.

8 hours ago, Shanegsd said:

Question. what is PG?

PG = Phoenixgarden

Site of the "other side", lol. Well, technically, its now "Roy's Forum". 

8 hours ago, Trapp said:

And THAT, my friends, is the entire point.

People can now produce AI generated shit by the second, so what is the point of expression anymore? It's consuming every facet of our lives, including entertainment. Hell, there are "girlfriend apps" that basically keep you enslaved to your phone because people are fucking terrified to talk and connect with others.

Would you call this "living"? I know I don't. And honestly, if we allow AI to control more aspects of our lives and basically do the heavy lifting for everything, we as a species, have lost the entire purpose of our existence.

We as a species, Im sorry to say this ... but at least 60-70 % of humans are utterly dumb and short sighted (and I have said maybe even a very optimistic number). Its no wonder that were experiencing miseries and wars, IMO it could be even worse and probably will be even worse than it is now.

This puts us in perspective with AI advancements. Its a double sided sword, but its sharper on its negative side. Positive side, AI could enable more independence and capabilities of individuals to create certain digital content with far shorter time. It could enable also much bigger things ... for example, recent experiments in fusion energy and usage AI in it have shown that AI was capable to control the flow of plasma within the tokamak through magnetic fields much more efficiently. That way enabling significantly longer time that plasma was present.

Negative side, there are unfortunately many. From military use to larger and more precise control of masses, surveillance. In above example of cashless societies I mentioned, government could easily restrict the access of money to certain individuals or groups. People would also lose jobs, maybe not fully, but depends. Multimillion companies would gladly want to reduce the number of workers while keeping the profits the same... robots and AI doesnt need food, doesnt need free time, doesnt have emotions. 

But I can tell you this ... not a single time there was a government in any country in the world in any era of history that had an intention to truly help their people selflessly.

But the governments are also merely a reflection of nations mentalities. And this puts us into a closed loop where human mentalities are too dumb and too irresponsible to change something beneficially. And every single one when someone claims they want to "help humanity" and "save us from something or someone", its actually just a mask, a facade, to rule over the masses and to have control.

Personally, I dont think this world will continue in this form, because its plainly unsustainable. It either awaits us utopia (a total change in human perception and mentalities) or dystopia (heavily centralized and parasitic ways of "living" where few have absolute control over the vast majority of others), but also there is a possibility of complete annihilation.

I dont think that AI will turn this reality into Terminator-like reality ... because we already live in Idiocracy-like reality, right now and here. 

Its good to know there is stability up to 1000. I dont think there would be instability regarding the slots number here as long as its under 1000, but mainly only in Toys section, because of way how toys are loaded, could cause more bloat. So, its maybe the only category that shouldnt be put too much into. Still, I think maybe 15-20 at least in addition to 20 existing could be put more. If there is instability, then the toys would need to be put into separate packs even more, and in less number and activated / deactivated as needed, or simply left on 20 as it is. Sadly, this is the only way I can see it currently... without changing the way how game loads them, from all in one bulk, to separate one by one.

And ofc, we always need to ask ourselves regarding PE tracks ... does this have a sense to be animatable ? If the answer is no, then it should be kept in Customizer only. But, for example, all of the potential facial expressions that could be added on... they all have sense only to be in PE.

I can personally say, from my own opinion, there really isnt much sense in armature driven deformations in head and face area. Theyre old and look obsolete in many ways, some look fairly bad. For body there could be a different logic, because deformations of clothing all follow the body, and that way, its very useful. So if one would use armature driven TRS, the expansion would have most sense for any body part except head, because there is already HS that covers any additional adjustments. 

21 hours ago, HDiddy said:

To be honest....DP16's free morphs are taking up a lot of prime morph slot real estate for something pretty much a lot of folks either do not use or do not even know how to use.  Ultimately the only thing they are currently being used for is the RoomImport Mod.

If it was me I would first reduce the DP16 free morphs to like  90 and go from there:

• 720 - 809: DP16 Free Morphs
• 810 - 839: 30 additional Morphs to Toys
• 840 - 889: 50 additional Morphs to Dress
• 890 - 919: 30 additional Morphs to Head
• 920 - 969: 50 additional Morphs to Body, (Expand on Tipsy's changes)
• 970 - 999: 30 Additional Morphs to Room

 

 

 

 

I would definitely agree on this... my suggestion on numbers would be maybe :

+20-30 morphs to Toys ... this is a bit tricky, because Im not sure (yet) how much additional morphs affect the game stability in that aspect. But I think at least 10-15 more on existing 20 would be ok.

+20-30 to Dress ... I think 100 already is more or less fine with little bit "margin" on it. 125-130 total would be ok.

+40-60 to Head ... definitely potential expressions, it goes very fast with additions.

+50-70 to Body ... same like Head, but there is one reason for potentially more morphs there - some bodies could be put only as whole body and no head, even with head included. Or maybe some more similar examples of "peculiar" bodies. Larger area and potential for more morphs, or including the ones from head (as in one body).

Room ... hmm, unsure, but I think 30-40 would be more than enough.

But ofc, this decision needs to be standardized, and I would recommend it to be standardized in every VX version of game. Mainly because its essential, and I dont see the need to use dp16 slots too extensively.

3 minutes ago, Driver said:

Could I ask what categories you are talking about here, do you mean separation of pemod dress slots, or general outfit categories in the customizer?

Never mind, you are talking about customizer.

Both, actually. Everything can be remodelled in different way, and it is possible also to remodel PE to be more "palpatable". Actually, the PE is the only thing that has absolutely practical sense to be remodelled. And I suspect that collapsing lists are not only bringing utter mess forward, but its also slightly more unstable.

Both in customizer and PE its all about long list that scrolls down. 16x16 icons are too small for many things even on lower resolutions. 

I think the proper way is to use combinations of buttons (both on screen and keyboard) to toggle on/off certain things. This way, capability to filter out things in more proper way is highlighted.

12 minutes ago, Driver said:

@x17

I know well about your concern about the performance issue, surely we won't need thousands of slots as Euphie claimed (but I know she was just being proud of it ). Also I think you are right about category issue, surely body and face are definitely need more slot, maybe toy and hair's too considering they occupy the slots even before you use them. But you worry too fast for the reality where still we have not got any additional slot yet. So we will see how it goes.

Anyway thanks to you guys I think I understand where we stand. I'll give smoke the best answer cause he just gave me the answer to the question.

I cannot confirm yet fully until I completely reorganize customizer (or PE at minimum) about stability, but I do suspect there is at least slight stability gain there. Not just performance, I mean on stability of the game.

For categories, I have thought maybe about capability to simply reassign one category into another. Its impractical and unrealistic to expect that one would reassign every single clothing item into other (and that would break it for initial setting) so this would possibly be the solution to it. Narrowing down the categories would simplify it all. 

I think toys are the biggest issue here, one needs really to be careful to use only what they need to at the moment.

2 minutes ago, Driver said:

Do you know by what logic she made the slot expanded? Was that made through lua script and she made it de facto limitless as if we do in customizer morph slot by using dynamic IDs?

Unfortunately I can understand very vague way how to VX generate sliders in the gui automatically for pemod morphs because I don't understand lua, but I'm sure pemod slot has its limit that you can see clearly in anim01 script.

Have you or maybe X17 who has deep knowledge as to how gui works on VX, tried to edit these slots and maybe track.ini to expand pemod slot physically?

I personally havent yet worked around this yet, but it definitely is possible (also my lua knowledge is barely existent, so it wont help in that part). However, my advice would be, instead of trying to make some very large number of "slots", it would be enough simply to increase it for certain categories just for several dozen more. Not too high in hundreds, but depends on exact category. We definitely need more for head alone, head and body, both. Head and body should have capability for many more slots, because there isnt much logic to have default deformations there (armature driven) because there is no need for any clothing assets to deform (because of hairsizer which enables one to fine tune the positions and rotations of any head asset). Morphs as they are are perfect for facial expressions, it enables one to make exactly what they want in Blender already.

I have just spoken with one modder in private about how lists within GUI actually slow down the game. In his case, there is no question, proven ... the moment when you open customizer, you experience a drop in fps. Not much, but visible. Its not exactly much logic there that game itself would be slowed down because of any GUI element... its all about lists and number of items in lists. So, when one has MANY lists of something (clothing, morphs, poses, etc) this will occur. And in some extreme numbers, this would cause even bigger instability.

This links to my GUI work ... why have I spent so much time on it and why Im still spending so much time on it. Its not about esthetics or anything like that, thats completely secondary - the plan is to rework these lists, because in my theory, this could be remade to make the game slightly more stable or even more stable than expected. 

Now, from my assumption, anything in extreme number simply will bog down and eventually the crash the game. Thats natural and expected. Same with morph "slots".

Also, I would say one thing... there isnt much logic to have morphs in PE that have no logic to be in animation. For example, if you have a smiling morph... that should be in PE, thats animatable. But if you have a morph that modifies face or head in shape that can be kept in customizer, it should be kept there only. There isnt much sense to just throw all morphs in PE, regardless of practicality ... again because of above "lists and numbers" I mention. So, this is one of the things that people should observe primarily ... many many morphs simply dont need to be present in PE, they can be implemented in customizer. 

For customizer, personally... I think eventually categories should need to be simplified. There is already too much crap, even categories that are very rarely used, and some have only one asset. Pointless implementation of something that was never used so far. 

HDiddy already answered majority of your questions.

I would add just one thing - a tip of how one can make morphs... while its pretty much usual way to make them through usual sculpting or through edit mode, there is also a way to utilize armature directly and save it as a shape key. Note that image shows not armature, but cloth modifier, which is also possible and interesting (example : flag ... )

Now this is fairly useful in certain situations... but depends. Usually, many times making morph in Edit mode would be sufficient, as rotation and translation within the separate meshes, but one could also make this through armature, joining all meshes into one, but keeping specific weighting and using the above method.

Just mentioning this case, in case if someone thought that making morphs through armature isnt possible. I think that in past versions of Blender, it also required firstly to apply the armature and then save the morph from the armature, which was impractical. But on newer ones this isnt anymore the case.

2 minutes ago, demonv1 said:

Very true the times we live in is so wild and fucked up. Feels like any horrific nightmare scenario can become a reality. Bring on the zombie apocalypse I'm sure it's coming too.

 

It's like Biff found the time delorian and I'm stuck living in a alternate timeline.

I dont think its necessarily the nightmare scenario.... but its some kind of conclusion in the process. Not many people are aware were basically a thin hair strand away from WW3 currently, and that immediately means also a global economic collapse. 

Still, with human mentalities, societies and pretty much whole behaviour in last two and half decades... some kind of conclusion must be, status quo cannot be held indefinitely.

1 minute ago, SovietTiger said:

Welcome to the feeling of being a Mexican living in Mexico. And for my understanding, any Latin American in their own countries.

For any dystopian thoughts, this theme always starts playing in my head... but I think that it maybe fits S.American dystopias even more ...

Still, with conclusion in progress (which is already unpleasant and painful), some kind of new beginning will come at one point in just few years from now. So, people should look at these times as some kind of preparation.

What people can notice lately in several years already ... every subsequent 1st of April becomes harder and harder to recognize humour from real happenings.

Its the absurdity of times we live in, real life has even outgrew satire. We live in satire of past times now, lol.

Thats the real joke.

As long as they dont look underaged - its all fine.

3 minutes ago, HDiddy said:

Yeah I think SkyRim is similar to Sims 4 where the posing for the sex mod has to be done in Blender and then ported back into SkyRim.  I do think even Sims 4 has a better armature for posing than SkyRim does.

I think that Sims IV is even better in attempting to make some kind of "story" with gameplay within xxx elements. Skyrim, despite its open world setting, would need to have a completely separately made map for some more modern or futuristic setting. 

Still, the main problem was always a lack of internal posing to me. And no matter how many poses I would find and try to implement in Skyrim, it always left me unsatisfied to an extent. Clipping was always there in some form, sometimes completely breaking the pose. This is why for any dedicated xxx game, internal poser is a must have. Still, even as more than two decades passed, I dont see too many xxx games that are larger in scope than some flash games, or RPG maker games with some erotic or porn hand drawn backgrounds.

Heres what I know about xxx games so far : 

- TK17 - staying on this game - internal poser and high moddability

- VaM - staying on this game - modern on Unity, internal poser (planned) and possible (with addon), high moddability

- Wild Life - there are plans for them to implement internal poser, but the game is really not too impressive, even as its on UE4 and now UE5, the devs dont understand the need to focus on xxx elements rather than "action" and "quests".

- Honey Select - never liked the anime looking faces, and even with somehat "westernized" faces, it still didnt attracted me to this game. I think (but Im not sure) that HS has some kind of poser, altough Im not sure if its internal or a separate module of a game.

- Skyrim XXX mods - same reason above, no internal poser, really havent sticked a lot around it

- Sims 4 - one of the things that were bad to me were mainly its cartoonish visuals. And yeah, I know its possible to make it more "realistic", but its still not what I seek. I dont think they will change anything in Sims 5 either, the Sims visuals have become a part of the game franchise, even first Sims 1 had a bit cartoonish look.

I havent modded exactly Skyrim, but played it ages ago, and pretty much played it modded with xxx mods, too. Major problem in past was its only 32-bit version, which guaranteed crashes. Later with SSE many issues around this were solved (but not all, ofc, because of game engine which was recycled multiple times over and over through various Bethesda's titles).

Main issue with Skyrim to me, at least regarding any xxx mods, was that Skyrim was never intended as xxx game, and never had any internal poser. I dont know if something has changed over time, or some new mods regarding that were introduced, but poses were all needed to be made externally and then imported. Which lead to massive clipping and really not exactly what I wanted to. 

Ironically, I found Sexvilla firstly before Skyrim, ages ago, somewhere in 2008.-2009., but after short time I forgot about it. Then as I was experimenting with Skyrim XXX mods somewhere in 2015., I found TK17 through LoversLab. And TK17 had internal poser which enabled me to make what I wanted to. 

Now, surely, Skyrim is open world and has RPG elements... but it was never made for XXX content properly. So, I would said only two xxx games I actually had interest so far, and those are TK17 and VaM.

On 3/25/2024 at 9:23 AM, demonv1 said:

Wow turns out Roy was asked to take down his CP sequences and he had a meltdown LMAO.

Just when I thought that it couldnt be more "greasy", there it is, lol. 

There is absolutely NO way that Oyster Mug "didnt know" about Roy's "habits". This is all sprinkling a plenty of glitter over himself, something that Oyster Mug did and does continously. Also, not saying his statement isnt true about Roy, but I have a feeling he probably omitted some facts or distorted them, so they could fit more nicely into his own narrative where he is a poor victim, and everyone else *points finger* is manipulative and wrong.

I mean, when one has selfish and egoistic individuals attempting to make a community ... this is bound to fail, always. Their ego will ultimately work against the community and will lead to scenarios like this. Its a typical, most natural outcome of what will happen. And guess what ? Even if they transition to some other place, even if they manage to cover all costs ... it ultimately comes full circle again to same ego issues. Who will be the new admin ? What kind of responsibilities fall on new admin ? What kind of responsibilities are shared between members of community ? Issues remain and will remain indefinitely.

"We rise from ashes" bla, bla and similar pathetic slogans ...  Phoenixgarden hasnt been active even for single year. If it ever comes back, how long before the next ego issue pops up to kills the whole site again ? Again, who will be the admin, is the question. Admin cannot be someone without responsibilities, admin should naturally be someone who is very responsible and active. Do they see such person anywhere in "their ranks" ? LOL .

From my standpoint, anyone who would come to implement a set of limitations and blockades on modding of a game, is an outright enemy of whole community for that game. Its not even legally theirs... but the mere fact that I havent seen this occuring as far as I can recall in my memory, that someone literally who isnt even a developer, comes and tries to blockade and limit the modding of the game, speaks volumes on its own how individuals who would support this are completely fucked up in their head, plainly said.

I mean, one surely can not want to share all mods with someone else. Thats fine. Its also fine not to share all knowledge about modding with someone else. Its also fine to ask for realistic compensation for invested time and effort if the outcome of it is something of a game changer for real. But to just outright make game limited heavily where only one person holds the keys to the game... thats disgusting.

I can tell openly, if anyone like Avarteas or other ones who supported this, attempts to come back into community, theyre NOT welcome and should not be welcomed ever until they reverse the damage they have done, remove all the limitations and sincerely apologize to WHOLE community for what they have done, and promise they will never do anything similar. But, there would rather be world peace than that occuring, lol.

So, to clarify the situation for V11 - deader than dead, keys to modify the game are with one person who can now "proudly" pat themselves on the back how they managed to fuckup everything because of egoism. HOOK5 doesnt work and will never work.

For VX + P update - this is a base game and update that is set as a starting point. There is a KE fork of game. There are some repacks. But all are based on VX+P version of game. HOOK5 works with full features on this version. And this game version is "officially" supported here on KE. There were some tiny updates after P that they made, but thats all just pointless categories shuffle and those updates arent important and crucial in any way. So, people can go with VX+P and be sure this is the stuff thats one that has potentially the most features and is most stable.

31 minutes ago, Lans Damon said:

P.S. what will happen to V11 now?

It was dead even before all of this... mainly because of two things : 

1. Zero possibility to implement HOOK5, even if Pervok was still active, he would never help them to implement it

2. Introduction of DRM and modding limitations with V11, which is absolute insanity that I explained above in one post

So, V11 would even without Avarteas "dissapearance", be pretty much dead. Now its deader than dead ... whatever that would mean, lol. 

From my own perspective, I have even basically "forgot" they exist... and that pretty much tells about how "functioning" fan community they were. A real fan community, for any project / game / comic ... regardless ... is a community where at least one part contributes and interacts. There cannot be one to very few contributing, and expect it to flourish.

Yeah, people can have disagreements, heck, even whole feuds like this was in our case. But ultimately, it deduces to simple fact, that real fan community absolutely DOES NOT prevent the modding of their game. Thats absolute insanity that I have seen done only by them, and noone else. Never I have heard any community for any game that theyre attempting to prevent and limit modding of something they supposedly like. Its an absolute egoistic tantrum of massive proportions. Personally, I would even just wave my hand at their own tantrums and lies they spat aimed to undermine KE in every possible way, as the lies always get exposed ultimately, but this attempt, to "neuter" the community and modders primarily, is an absolute dipshit move.

They actively tried to kill the community and even game itself - and now they got what they deserved. Cant say I have much empathy towards them, its karma in action.

22 hours ago, Lans Damon said:

In a somewhat more serious tone, I tend to agree with @x17 when he says

After the newness is over I think AI graphics will be of no more importance than wallpaper or computer generated poetry. AI will be another tool to use by humans in different ways, but I believe that only what comes from the human heart can touch another one's heart. Like a sense of humor for instance. AI will always have something artificial and unhumanlike and it will only in so far be inspirational according to what humans have put in it.

edit: As MarkZappa explained to me TK17 was done by reverse engineering. Maybe AI could do that too? I'm a layman on computer stuff so maybe what I say makes no sense.

The AI assistance is good for lots of "routine" work. Even if something much simpler as 2D imagery generation, the images can have some uniqueness with human aftertouch, and often it needs aftertouch to fix the potential errors.

I would say that AI voice modulation is something that has even bigger potential than text-to-2D or even text-to-3D generation.

Now, surely, the AI itself presents a "threat" to many professions. Many creative ones, and even with all of the unique human touch that is different from AI, it will still make some professions less sought. But it will also open some new professions to be more sought.

Its not necessarily a bad thing like some want to present, AI will never extinguish those professions whatever happens. 

Im more worried about human stupidity, because human stupidity and AI coldness equals much more problems.