x17

5 hours ago, hueyb said:

Do you think it's possible to go the other way? i would love to port Vx animations to a Daz scene.

I think there definitely should be a way ... but it would require set of tools, in same way. Im not familiar with DAZ animations, so I cant say much there, but I know that DAZ is primarily the static scener, and far less used for animations. Blender is more used for animations. 

One is also capable to use Mixamo animations directly with DAZ : https://www.daz3d.com/forums/uploads/FileUpload/03/0c8603c28f26404036ef24dee6c0fe.pdf

But as said ... DAZ isnt exactly proper program for animations. The continous bloat of assets gets worse and worse, and I can see that authors of assets simply dont care about it. And this, in return, bloats the render times and lags down the whole scenes during making.

5 hours ago, HDiddy said:

And the saga continues...

"Declared war" ? "TK17 belongs to us" ? "Blocking the editing of game GUI" ?

I mean, the above comments show about how infantile certain folks are, and considering I know real identity of "Richter Belmont", it really doesnt surprise me at all ... and I can just laugh at these "threats". Thats the guy who came here to me on Klub Exile, and said openly he will leak anything from here onto "their site", and pretty much openly ... thats the level of intelligence one deals here with.

Richter Belmont, and pretty much everyone aside Avarteas thats currently in so called "team" never contributed with anything to core game functions and features, or expanding them. K17 never contributed anything to the game, even in absolutely literal way. At least thats what I saw, because I havent seen anyone from former "team" working on V11 at all. Raistin Kane was one of the major contributors and modders of the game, that contributed the most in last several years (and to VX, not V11), and this has been seen by everyone. Even on former MG. Credit is given to those who gave some effort to TK... not to those who sucked up to K17 and his whims. The fact that theyre ditching Avarteas, or already ditched him, speaks volumes on its own. They ditched the only guy who did something for V11, and jubilantly slapped themselves as "big authors".

So, all of this "this is our game now", simply has an utterly egoistic tone. Not only that, but direct claim that they will limit the game modding, tells everything to everyone. They want to limit the game modding, just so that their fragile little egos wouldnt burst, God forbid anyone else mod this game... only the "chosen ones" can, right ? These folks would like "credit", but their "credit" is over the work and effort of others. They will never, ever get any credit from me, and in my eyes, theyre thieves, moral zeroes and egoistic maniacs doing damage to TK17, which is already a very rare example of game.

33 minutes ago, HDiddy said:

So I am just gonna say.  I find it odd after so many years and Avarteas admit-tingly working on V11 all by himself, leaves for a few months...and K17 and Richter Belmont announce V11 release..only mentioning his name once...

For what?.....Wait for it....

Sadly, like proven multiple times before... the V11 will also become one of many corpses that egoistic vultures will feed on. So, you can be assured they probably dumped him or at minimum sidelined him, while he was probably the only one person making any work on V11 there. AFAIK, there were maybe more people, but I dont know nor can confirm it.

If yes, and if its so ... then its truly sadder and worse than I have thought it to be. Nothing to add onto that, but maybe a head shaking in disgust ...

Todd Howard : "Its not a bug, its a feature, thats a mole..."

First thing to check is your error logs in TK17 / Logs / Klub-10.txt, possibly it can offer more hints to the problem.

From my own experience, no need to look at what is "popular" and what is not, or if certain things will be popular in others eyes, or not. And if something doesnt catch up on popularity, it means its surely "worse". Not really. 

Its more about that tastes are different, and subjective thing. If you enjoy in something primarily firstly for yourself, youre already creating something that makes you joy.

And much better than usual Nutella... this is infused with dark magic.

Couldnt believe this game is (supposedly) coming out ... 

To put into perspective ... the last trace or sign of life for this game I have seen literally decade ago, somewhere in 2013., from its gameplay trailer. Yes, this game showed astounding levels of visuals, and even more astounding sound design, even before Alien Isolation and SOMA were released. It went completely off my radar for ages, and today somehow it popped in my mind in unrelated sense... curiously I went to check if there were any new news about it, and truly was surprised to see this. 

The game was in development hell / limbo for a decade, if not more.

"Golden middle" - NSFW softcore.

And goes with my "sex philosophy" that skimpier and less clothing is not always sexier. Its what our mind doesnt see, that it "fills the gaps". So, basically erotic content is optimal here.

What Driver mentioned - especially in case of many archives, the merging of addons could speed things up (altough unclear exactly how much... ).

In general, one merged addon should always be logically better than multiple ones, at least in case when were definitely settled for what we need and want, and do not want to add or remove assets from it. But as said, unclear how much gain there is. It could be that gain is so small thats not really justifiable. Like, for example in one other case, switching color palettes for images, which in turn makes gain negligible, but can make problems further in further modding ...

In general, I keep all my files unarchived. Mainly because of practicality in modding. Also I dont have large numbers of addons and massively bloated Active Mod folder, so it doesnt really affect me if I keep everything unarchived.

So, the logic says to me, the merged single addon would probably slightly load faster than multiple ones, especially if theyre all archived, then the gain could probably be even more. But for stability of the game, which is of bigger importance ... everything will be loaded regardless, and there doesnt seem to me that anything will be more stable comparing the two ways. However, there is one underline that every user of this game should follow and that is - whatever you dont need at the moment in game or that you wont use or that you will use rarely... you should remove it and store it outside of the game for later. Trimming down onto anything one can, one can reduce loading times as well as increase their stability, just choosing and filtering what they need to at the moment. Some users, I see they use games with bloated Addons and ActiveMod folder with bunch of things that do require some trimming, and some are even obsolete or pointless. 

16 hours ago, flying_cat said:

VX2 rumors keep going around but we still haven't been able to upload it.
If it is a DX11 and 64 bit system, the performance will double.

Nope. The original game was made by team who didnt care much about setting it on proper foundation, so even with 64-bit version, there are still crashes, ironically. The gains arent impressive ... for some other games that made transition to 64-bit, the gains were high and it 99 % stabilized the game, but not with this game.

Secondly, there will probably never be HOOK5 for the 64-bit version, which means its visuals are inferior to current VX version + HOOK5. And that immediately puts finger down for this version... and if there are no visual capabilities at minimum in range of HOOK5 that we currently have, then its not really worth it. The only similarity to HOOK5 that 64-bit version has by default are normal maps ... the rest is inferior to HOOK5.

So, for 64-bit version to be superior to current version, it needs to have fully functional HOOK5 with all its features at minimum. 

I dont think they would ever sell the IP, but even if they would, that would be a plain waste of money for anyone who would be buying.

Firstly, the game is more than two decades old in its core. The foundations of the game are ancient and obsolete. We now have UE5 and Unity, very powerful game engines with unparalleled visual fidelity.

Secondly, creating a new game from scratch on new engine would offer far better future perspective, rather than attempting to upgrade this game. Whoever does this needs to sink a ton of time and money in either cases, but at least with new engine you actually can learn routinely bunch of things through tutorials and that knowledge would later be useful in other projects.

In other words, sure maybe one could be successful with further hacking of game and changing the "internals"... but its a very slim chance, and from my POV its a time sink when someone tries to experiment and isnt fully sure what theyre doing.

So, the overall conclusion ... better to attempt a new project on new engine, regardless of how long it would take to learn, as one would potentially learn something very useful, even making them money down the line, rather than wasting money on half dead IP.

1 hour ago, Looker said:

So if i modified them and learned how they were made, i could in theory make new ones, is that correct?

Definitely should be possible, because seems to me there are two sets of files - one "core" set in Shared folder, and one in Luder/Story with separate stories per rooms.

1 hour ago, Looker said:

That's exactly it! I'm a simple person so i'd be satified with the "here's some dialogue and choices" thing. I wouldn't complain if it were a way for the sequencerto end in the free mode but it doesn't otherwise i wouldn't even bother.

If for you this is enough, then I think all should be possible what you planned to do.

1 hour ago, Looker said:

I'm interested, please let me know what you have in mind for it.

Basically it would be a huge task, and maybe even impossible without affecting hardcoded stuff. Something like this ...

1. I would need to find a way for every pose to assign certain value, or even better, fluctuating values. This value would then be used in progress pleasure bar. This could make every pose usable properly.

2. Finding a way to implement a simple 2D texture, like map in game that would serve in main storymode. This texture has additional widgets and elements on it, as well as images. (tons of work)

3. Finding a way to implement time passage for the 2D map ... Im not sure if this would be even possible, but maybe some kind of turns system could be possible, more linear system. Or maybe the pseudo day and night cycle on map could also be made like separate progress bar.

4. Find a way to interconnect rooms and environments in game 2d map, as well as inventory / customizer and models. This would alone probably be the biggest headache.

And these are just main directions, so it seems a gargantuan task, even if possible, and I think that time and effort should be invested in other ways. But Ill try to see how much I can alter certain things, and if there is success that I havent expected ...  at least a tiny bit... then there is maybe a slim chance for something. 

Where to check for Storymode scripts : 

In your TK17 directory there is Archives folder. You can open it and find archived Scripts folder. Copy-paste and extract it somewhere to check its contents. Inside of the extracted folder, open Luder folder and then Story folder. You will find the scripts there - there is one main script (main bs file) that arranges premade dialogue in linear fashion. The dialogues are arranged in other bs files for various languages (L=EN - English , L=DE - German... etc). 

The core files for Storymode it seems to me to be in Scripts / Shared / Story folder.

From what Ive seen in scripts - yes, it should be possible... but noone did this AFAIK, so far. The question is more "why would someone make new storymode scenarios" ?

Because storymode and whole "main game element" is so bare, linear and uninnovative that I think its pointless to try to implement new stories there. The whole story mode goes just "heres some dialogue, heres few choices, enjoy". But in truth, its just like a myriad of other 5-minute flash games on net that you play and forget in same 5 minutes, lol.

So, the "real game mode" of TK17, I think its more of a Pose Editor, than anything else. People have non-linear approach and capability to create in game many sex poses they want to, with models they want to, in environments they want to.

I have been looking to attempt to alter the storymode in some way or even completely replace it, but thats something low on my priority list, as I have plenty of things to work on, and it seems to me like its a massive time investment for questionable return. What would be a good fitting "main story mode" ? Forget about "open world setting" on this ancient engine. The rooms and environments would need to be connected in a new game mode, and the whole sex scene ("action scene") would need to be reworked in more non-linear way to be interesting. And its highly probable that game would need to circumvent some hardcoded stuff for that be able to be done.

15 minutes ago, Trapp said:

I don't even know what to add to this conversation, but for some pointers:

1. I do agree that "AI" (more like Machine Learning) has no place in art. As much as I would love to be more skillful in that department, the truth is it requires a lot of time that I just don't have anymore. I did play around on Catbird a little bit and made these:

Granted, my prompts are kind of garbage, but this is what came out of it. You can clearly tell there's fake elements to everything, but the face on the very first one looks terrifyingly close to what I imagine Dani would look IRL. Not too far from the person that inspired her too...

2. As long as the people with the resources continue down their path of hubris, of course we're going to see worse things happening for all of us. I read the mention of Twitter (now X... Kudos for ruining the best part of my childhood, Elon, you tool...) and social media contributing to the dehumanization of society, which is already bad due to the "routine" billions of us are forced into just to survive. To me, artistic expressions like music, reading and drawing/painting/animation are what keeps us human and validate us as a sentient species, and while I do agree that "AI" can help artists create more unique works, the sheer overabundance of people on the Internet thinking they can capitalize on their stupid prompt-generated images is absolutely infuriating to me. Silver lining though, like @x17 said, bitches can never copyright that shit. Serves them right.

And finally, technology that can make our lives easier should be always welcome and used responsibly. I don't think we're facing a future similar to what Skynet did, but the only ones who can bring us down is ourselves, our hubris and our unchecked ambition and dehumanization. I know that I will NEVER support anything AI-generated by seeing simple art or developing artists honing their craft over the years.

Yeah, I dont think its AI what we need to be afraid ... its more humans that behave like AI that we should be worried about, lol.

But overall, the above verdict regarding AI copyright, despite its actually a "win" for Hollywood whiners (I despise and dislike about 95 % of Hollywood actors, maybe even more...), it will now put them into a position where their whining about AI wouldnt have much sense, because they have already got their "protection" and also AI cant be copyrighted - and that means that AI will probably get used more openly in places, especially within non-commercial or open sourced projects and modding. 

In one sense, the AI can never replace human work and product of human passion, uniquely made. It could assist greatly and help with more routine and menial work, though.

BTW, saw this, the decision was made ... 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/ai-generated-art-cannot-receive-copyrights-us-court-says-2023-08-21/

So, AI-generated content cannot be copyrighted, only human work can be copyrighted ... which I think is completely logical and excellent decision. This will make commercial projects to seek unique human work ... or they could still go with AI generated content, but these parts wouldnt be necessarily protected by copyright. But even more, these are excellent news for modding...

Hmm ... is that why aliens stopped anally probing humans ? 

My opinion about some kind of "transfer TK17 to new engine" - I think its just a waste of time and energy. Much much better thing is always to go with your own project, a new game in making. Mainly because TK17 aside its Pose Editor, which is mainly used, has no other game mode thats too much worthy of mention. "Storymode" in TK17 is just a plain garbage (sorry to say that, but it is).

However it doesnt much surprise that main game mode is pointless, considering when the original game was made. 

For example, for my own project on UE (initially UE4 and then later UE5), Im going for a clear main game mode with drastically different approach. UE is especially good engine for more open world type of games. The positive thing is that I can make things in very modular approach and later connect them ... so, for example, customizer (for which there are even already "templates" to buy from marketplace) one can make firstly ... then later internal Pose Editor and main game mode. The main game mode in my opinion, will have absolutely nothing in connection to TK17, but will be either an isometric Sims-like control of player, or third person view (zoomable in/out, rotatable) camera view. The idea for this is to be set in more open world with modular level loading utilizing level "cells". The idea would be for seamless transitions with loading and unloading of "cells", but it can actually go also for more linear approach with loading the "closed" single cell environments (aka, basically our "rooms" in TK17). Further idea is to have a unique system of sex actions in game, which would be intertwined into an RPG system of stats, equipment, skills, etc...

One thing that any xxx game with true vision must have is its internal pose editor. This is a must, and this is not easy. Because one needs to think about exact system of how poses will work and how will they be loaded. Secondly, one needs to think about proper compatible formats - one must have in mind compatibility with many other usual formats (like FBX) and have clear "skeleton" of the game outlayed in such way that it enables modding. 

So, to sum it up ... I think transfering TK17 as it is onto a new engine is a bad idea, for someone else who would plan to do it. Because everything around default TK17 is obsolete and archaic. And one should definitely aim for lots of compatibility with transfer of DAZ assets and bodies for a new game. If one would transfer current default TK17 assets onto a new engine, they would literally transfer more than two decades old assets on a new game engine. In other words, pointless.

Instead, the good bodies to base one game would be G3 / G8 and older V4 of DAZ. With additional compatibility for custom bodies and armature. FBX format is standard here.

But the biggest issue will be what I mentioned above ... having a clear vision of how Pose Editor will work, and main game mode will work. For the beginning, its ideal to focus on only Pose Editor, because its a core foundation. Only few XXX games have internal dedicated Pose Editors. 

Absolutely feel free to pursue it in way how you see fit. Theres nothing you could lose - you could only gain.

I have also, personally, started UE learning just relatively recently... and bit by bit, going into direction of making my own small project, which will also be xxx related. Why xxx related as first projects ? Well, in general, xxx project would require much smaller scope and many elements of it could be implemented in very modular way. And secondly, there is scarcity of larger xxx games, huge scarcity.

So, I think its even a smart path and direction to go... would enable one to hone skills and learn more, and alongside, there is always a potential for project to grow into something bigger. 

Regarding this game in particular... I dont think much could be done related to game engine, on its core level. Its an old game with its limitations. However, I could tell you I have seen even some bigger xxx projects which are currently failing in visual aspect even as theyre on most modern engines (Unity, Unreal Engine 4 and 5). Thats because the team and people working behind it have a visible lack of knowledge in 3d modelling, making assets, texturing, adapting and optimizing them. And some projects just simply lost their vision and direction overall...

One tip : one could truly use assets for their own game not just on marketplaces of game engines they already work on. There is nothing worse than when I see stock Unity or Unreal assets (aside testing) that people use for ages even as game is out there to sell. There are so many assets that can be acquired, and in DAZ, with interactive game licensing this is possible. And also other assets, at minimum through contacting the author of assets. Kitbashing - if allowed - could also be an option. If there is money involved, even through donations, it could help a lot with acquiring new assets and resources if the projects grows into something bigger. When the "core" of the game is set right, and when you have a clear vision what exactly to make ... then you have a proper plan.

PsychoCatGirl explained it all in detail ...

Sadly, my lua skills are shit, too. With lua it should be possible to more easily implement some things without need to touch multiple scripts or cause conflicts.

Hopefully, in not so far future, maybe we wont even need PE dummy and similar collapsing sections of the menu over there which are basically mess and loss of time in posing, as well as frustrating "routine". 80-90 % of PE interface is archaic.

Shrooms are bad, kids, m'kay ...

Awww... 

System Shock 2 (PC, 1999.)

As successful remake of System Shock 1 was released recently by Nightdive Studios, we recall equally successful (or even bigger success) of System Shock 2. The game initially made by devs of Looking Glass Studios, the same ones that made Thief franchise, went on to make a successor to System Shock 1 in completely new engine. This game was huge success even upon its release, and truly continued with what could be described more as a "SF transhumanist and alien shooter-horror" type of a game.

System Shock 2 had all the best elements of its predecessor SS1 and as well as Thief titles, refining its RPG progression further, and putting a game onto a brand new foundation on new engine that was back in time very advanced.

Thief and System Shock franchises are probably some of the biggest franchises in "shooter" genres of 90s, alongside Quake, Unreal, Half-Life and Doom. Altough the way that both of these franchises took, was drastically different from many typical shooters. The AI was more complex, scripting was more in depth and the whole concept was different than "shoot and kill everything in sight". Thief became one of first initial franchises that employed stealth, to extent where it was an essential part of the game.

The horror of System Shock franchise were always something fairly unique back then. On SS2, and new engine, the game could be presented in even more atmospheric and unnerving way. It also made some of the most memorable game antagonists in form of SHODAN, or artificial intelligence that goes rogue, in form of female (voiced by Terri Brosius) AI that was fairly "bossy" and dominant, continously mocking the player.

There were several twists and turns in the game. The whole plot was based on cyberpunk setting, within the experimental FTL ship deep in space in 2114, where we as a survivor awaken from cryosleep and need to figure out what occured on ship... 

The plot around SHODAN AI is also connected to alien parasitic lifeforms called "The Many", which infects majority of ship crew, while the rest are turned into a mindless cyborg thralls and servitors...

We, as a player, do have a choice to begin either as a combat specialist (Marine), repair and hacking specialist (Navy) or psionic specialist (OSA). The game has fairly in depth (for back in time) system of RPG elements, and it definitely influenced later major titles, like already mentioned here Deus Ex.

System Shock 2 was re-released back in 2013. as Nightdive Studios got rights on original franchise, and released the "enhanced edition". They further remade the first SS which got full successful release recently, and I assume they will definitely fully remake SS2. 

Some of the more modern alternatives was a spiritual successor in form of Bioshock (altough with definitely different setting, but atmospherically, very similar). Even more modern, we could put a game like Prey from 2016.

One thing that I would really like to see is Nightdive Studios eventually remaking some of Thief titles ... there are some mods for Doom III like DarkMod that is possibly some of the most faithful representation of Thief on more modern engines, but also full other similar franchises, like Dishonored.

Overall, the whole SS franchise was pure success so far ... and altough there are talks that System Shock 3 is in development (unrelated to Nightdive Studios, but related to Tencent) I dont give much hope for such title, mainly because its given to devs who have no idea what theyre doing ... 

Final verdict : 10/10 ... just like with Deus Ex, the System Shock in its core was fairly revolutionary for back in time... bringing shooter, horror and RPG elements into a fluid amalgamation. Because of its influence back then, and even today where it became even more relevant with recent releases ... I can say, this is one of the most important shooter titles of 90s.