Blender measurements = TK17 measurements?

[SovietTiger]

In past days I have been in a discussion with comrade @Morius about the size of the models. I assume most of us, mid to advanced users, are aware that modifying the height of a model with the inherent slider, modifies parameters and can really mess up with our poses.

Nevertheless, I was wondering. Trough a friend I got a H5 ruler, that I know for a fact that it is blender accurate measurement. Basically, it's a ruler of 2m height. Roughly 78.7402 inches in freedom units. 

This came to my attention, because I was used to measure my characters with the Binary Scale Room. There, the scale is the same as in the slyders. Namely, when you take the height slyder to the left, and you get 1.50m in that scale. You move the slyder to the right, and you get 2m in the scale. And that's about the same in the freedom units.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut measuring with the H5 object, which does not deformate ingame unless you make it deformed, the units are't quite the same. And comparing the ruler with the units in blender, it does indeed has a height of 2.1m

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My girl Rassía is supposed to have a height of 1.82m, roughly 6 feet. When measured at the scale room, compared with the ruler, Rassía is 10 cm taller than she's supposed to be. 

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nullAccording to the ruler, Rassía must be smaller. She's a tall girl, but not a WNBA player. 

 

The difference between the slyder position between photos is remarkable. I like my girls with maxed necks and maxed legs, but the "real" measurement isn't the same as the one on the binary scale room, that gives the same results as the customizer slyder. 

 

So, here's the thing. As a modder, I try to bring my guns with "real" proportions. I do know, that toys are scaled with the model, so they need to be adjusted to keep the "real" measurement. But I'm feeling I'm being too controlling here. And yet, it blew my mind realising my girl was indeed too big and that was the reason she couldn't fit in lots of furniture, specially chairs felt too small almost always.

 

So, what's the position of you guys, fellow modders and users in general about this? We should use accurate measurements or just what pops to our basic instincts, when we design models, and even more important, creating toys? 

Does it matter? Anyone else gives a fuck about this? Yes? No? Why?

[petrav]

Not sure if this is relevant, but that ruler in the scale room (a texture edited by me) was an estimated guess created in photoshop. I do not exptect it to be perfectly-scaled to whatever real reference object.

[HDiddy]

I personally do not think exact measurements matter.  I think the closer you can get to realistic without making it into a scientific experiment should be fine.  That is if realistic or semi-realistic is even your thing.

[Morius]

Ok, is a known fact that the measurements of the game slider and the measurements of blender differ.

It's also know that measurements in different 3d apps may also differ.

An object with 2m in Blender may not have 2m in Maya or 3DMax. 

This is also true in other game measurements. Juri from Street Fighter measure 1,62m. But if you compare the models of the mad martial artist from street fighter 4 and street fighter V, you'll notice that the one fron the previous game dwarfs in comparison with the later game.

My point is, the game chose that if you slide all the way right, your model will be 6ft tall (1,82m), and things should be adapted to that measures when ported to the game. As someone who works with Blender adapts the objects ported from Maya to Blender standards. 

And that's because we are freaks who likes to complicate things in our game.

[SovietTiger]

15 hours ago, petrav said:

Not sure if this is relevant, but that ruler in the scale room (a texture edited by me) was an estimated guess created in photoshop. I do not exptect it to be perfectly-scaled to whatever real reference object.

If that's the case, it's even more curious (and awesome) that the slyder is the same as the scale in the room. And it's really a interesting and usefull asset.

12 hours ago, HDiddy said:

I personally do not think exact measurements matter.  I think the closer you can get to realistic without making it into a scientific experiment should be fine.  That is if realistic or semi-realistic is even your thing.

Yeah, I feel kinda the same. One of the most incredible things about this game, is the level of customization one can achieve. It really doesn't matter for the user if it is only for his/her use. But when we share stuff we have made, it should be as universal as possible, for others to enjoy and try to spare the pain to adjust as much as possible.

9 hours ago, Morius said:

Ok, is a known fact that the measurements of the game slider and the measurements of blender differ.

It's also know that measurements in different 3d apps may also differ.

An object with 2m in Blender may not have 2m in Maya or 3DMax. 

This is also true in other game measurements. Juri from Street Fighter measure 1,62m. But if you compare the models of the mad martial artist from street fighter 4 and street fighter V, you'll notice that the one fron the previous game dwarfs in comparison with the later game.

My point is, the game chose that if you slide all the way right, your model will be 6ft tall (1,82m), and things should be adapted to that measures when ported to the game. As someone who works with Blender adapts the objects ported from Maya to Blender standards. 

And that's because we are freaks who likes to complicate things in our game.

I'm no German, but I learned from them: "If you can something hard... do it harder". I believe it is not about dick matters...

[petrav]

2 hours ago, SovietTiger said:

If that's the case, it's even more curious (and awesome) that the slyder is the same as the scale in the room. And it's really a interesting and usefull asset.

 

Well, I tested various versions before using the one shared here. I tried to make it the most realistic using the models as reference tool (I assume most of my female models are around 165-175 cm tall). 

[frabb]

On 4/25/2024 at 7:05 AM, SovietTiger said:

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut measuring with the H5 object, which does not deformate ingame unless you make it deformed, the units are't quite the same. And comparing the ruler with the units in blender, it does indeed has a height of 2.1m

just for the record because at one point I didn't follow you , the ruler is 2.1 m high because as you can see in the picture, 10 cm of white space was left at the top for the '200' inscription.
As far as I'm concerned, I scale all objects using real measurements, also because often the furniture even in base rooms has incompatible measurements (like tiny chairs and giant beds)...

[SovietTiger]

50 minutes ago, frabb said:

just for the record because at one point I didn't follow you , the ruler is 2.1 m high because as you can see in the picture, 10 cm of white space was left at the top for the '200' inscription.
As far as I'm concerned, I scale all objects using real measurements, also because often the furniture even in base rooms has incompatible measurements (like tiny chairs and giant beds)...

Yes I do! If it was 2m you couldn't see the numbers complete 

And I didn't want to tag you because well, I know this asset is yours but I got it from a 3rd party. You know, lawyer/client secrecy stuff.  

[x17]

From what Ive noticed, the numbers in scripts (for example rooms) are fitting exactly in 1:1. So 1 m in Blender = 1 m in game (if properly converted from DAZ, for example). One could use a grid in Blender to see, where 1 m is clearly visible in grid.

What I think it should be used ? I created a specific category just for that, or one could make it in any other category... but I think that something like meter or measurer is more practical as an asset thats linked to armature. For example, specifically for root bone and precisely measured from the bottom to top. This could be possible to be done as one single texture that displays both metric and imperial system, one on one side, other on the other side, while both are overlapped and visible. Or simply using second texture with imperial or metric system, even better. But again, should be linked to armature and precisely "calibrated" in Blender.

I have found usage of measuring only needed in something like customizer, this is why I created that customizer room with meter in it (metric and imperial overlayed). But technically, as long as one precisely calibrates the meter in Blender, they could also make something like morphable measurer. So, the meter itself should never be morphable as it would distort the proportions, but the mesh separate from it should be morphable. One could even create an exact height measuring device.

The more interesting thing to me is reflecting exact measures through slider values and then reflecting / displaying that in game in precise way.

[Morius]

On 4/26/2024 at 1:14 AM, petrav said:

Well, I tested various versions before using the one shared here. I tried to make it the most realistic using the models as reference tool (I assume most of my female models are around 165-175 cm tall). 

Hey Petrav, did you really created the Binary scale room or just the metric texture? If you did, credits to the original creator are due! 

 

[petrav]

1 hour ago, Morius said:

Hey Petrav, did you really created the Binary scale room or just the metric texture? If you did, credits to the original creator are due! 

 

I just edited the metric texture and shared with a few who asked a copy of the file.

Sorry, I don't recall who created that room.

On 4/26/2024 at 6:35 PM, SovietTiger said:

Yes I do! If it was 2m you couldn't see the numbers complete 

And I didn't want to tag you because well, I know this asset is yours but I got it from a 3rd party. You know, lawyer/client secrecy stuff.  

Is that 2 m tall ruler a Hook5 Object available somewhere?

[SovietTiger]

3 hours ago, petrav said:

Is that 2 m tall ruler a Hook5 Object available somewhere?

It's comrade @frabb's. If he uploads it or he authorizes me, I can gladdy share it.